Category:Places

I don't think the multiverse counts as a.... place per se. I dunno. Are there any physics brainiacs here? ——Preceding AWESOME comment added by RootSword (wall • contribs) 02:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Well I'm no physics brainiac but I think multiverse does count as a "place", albeit an all-encompassing place. If multiverse doesn't belong under "places" where would it fit better? Capt Banana Guard (talk) 16:04, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

I had already put it under "Concepts" before it went under places. See, I'm tepid about putting it in "Places" because, one, I think the multiverse is just a concept in physics also (note that I said "I think"). Number two, between universes, there's nothing; no space, no time, just absolute nonexistence of anything physical. "Place" doesn't really serve as a good identification if half/most of the multiverse is just that empty space of conceptual nothingness; at least that's what I believe. The whole thing's pretty hard to grasp, really. Or maybe I'm just dumb. ——Preceding AWESOME comment added by RootSword (wall • contribs) 20:09, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Which is why I had it in "universe" for the template. Though I did mention I didn't know how to fill it out for this particular concept.

It's like a lake under the ocean. -- Bunai82 ^(talk) 20:19, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

The multiverse is a place, it is THE place, the place where everything is in every universe. ALL universes everywhere are in the multiverse. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 20:32, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Here's the problem. Places are physical, i.e., they have space. I don't think you can consider the multiverse as just a "big place" since you can't exactly just move physically from one universe to the next like with a fast rocket or something. You need a fold between the dimensions, i.e., a worm hole, that tears through the non-physical, non-existential parts of the multiverse, the parts that don't have space or time. At best, I think it is a concept. The universes are places that exist within a network known as the multiverse, but the multiverse is not necessarily a place. ——Preceding AWESOME comment added by RootSword (wall • contribs) 22:11, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

There are many who believe you can move from one universe to another with just a rocket, but we are talking about multiverses which you can't move from one multiverse to another because there is only one multiverse, everywhere. Besides, being able to move from one to another isn't the definition of a place. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 11:47, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well, no, see, you can't travel between universes like that because there's no space in between them; or at least that's what I understood. Anyway, what I'm saying is that the inability to travel "three-dimensionally" between universes makes the multiverse not like a "place" in the conventional sense; a place can be defined as "a space," and being able to travel between the universes in the conventional sense, i.e. through three-dimensional space, would make the multiverse a place. However, the multiverse is a conceptual network of different spaces (universes), spaces that cannot be accessed by traveling through space, i.e., space between universes, of which I understand there is none. ...I think I made my brain hurt. Another definition of a place is "a point in space," and I know the multiverse can't be considered that. ——Preceding AWESOME comment added by RootSword (wall • contribs) 09:21, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

Going on the same logic there, you could argue that any place on a piece of paper (or other 2D plane) is a valid place, but somewhere on a seperate sheet of paper on top isn't a 'place' because you can't go from one sheet to the other via those 2 dimensions. If we consider a pile of paper acceptable as a space or a place, a collection of universes as a multiverse should also be. Otherwise, printers use unconventional physics for their paper trays :P Joeyjam (talk) 23:44, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Nice closing joke there. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 13:34, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Tons of scientists believe universes intersect and due to this would be theoretically possible to spatially travel to and from, in fact there are numerous popular theories that include this possibility. Though what I was talking about above was black holes and that some believe them to be portals to another dimension where the physics work differently and those different physics leaking into our universe is why black holes are so unexplainable.

Of course the Multiverse is a point in space, just because that point encompasses the entirety of everything doesn't mean it isn't still a point.

File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 15:14, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

._.? I'm still confused. Assuming the physicalities between a universe and a multiverse are so similar that the multiverse can be considered a "point" like the universe can, how can it be a point "in space?" Surely there's not more space the multiverse can be shoved into, assuming there's space outside the multiverse? ——Preceding AWESOME comment added by RootSword (wall • contribs) 20:25, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

Look at my above statement, "encompasses the entirety of everything" File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 07:45, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

Lumpy Space

Would Lumpy Space count as a seperate dimension, with that frog and mushroom being a naturally occuring portal? Jorlem (talk) 19:12, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Lumpy Space is an alternate dimension, as for whether or not the portal is natural... idk. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 21:14, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, natural as opposed to the artificial portals created by powerful artifacts, like the Enchiridion. Jorlem (talk) 21:46, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't follow... why can't the frog be using an artifact? Or even why couldn't an artifact have been used on the frog to make him a portal? File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 18:20, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

No reason why that couldn't be the case. I'm just speculating here, that's all. That's why I asked it as a question. As far as I can recall, we've seen three different interdimensional portals (The Enchiridion, the frog to Lumpy Space, and the Nightosphere ritual.), and we know from Booko that there are three types of portals. I was just trying to figure out if we might have seen an example of each one. Jorlem (talk) 18:05, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Just realized, I forgot about the Crystal Dimension and the Land of the Dead. I'd bet that the Crystal Apple would count as an artifact, and the method for entering the LotD would fall under the same catagory as the Nightosphere. Jorlem (talk) 18:16, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Only demons were found in the Nightosphere, while the LotD had dead people..? File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 14:52, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

But the methods for entering those locations are both ritual based. There aren't any unique physical components required. Jorlem (talk) 16:07, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

No ritual for the Land of the Dead? They only got in because they knew a friend of Death? File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 18:16, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

People who die automatically go to the LotD normally... it seems. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 18:16, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

There was that whole 'crossing your eyes while looking where two walls meet' thing though. Anyone who knows that can probably get in just fine, but leaving is likely another story. Finn and Jake got out b/c Peppermint Butler was Death's friend. And not everyone who dies goes to the LotD, some stay on Ooo as ghosts. I think we can agree that the ways that Peppermint Butler and Marcelene showed to F&J for getting to the LotD and the Nightosphere, respectively, are not artifact based portals though. Jorlem (talk) 18:36, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

I took that as only able to be done because Peppermint Butler is some horrible evil guy who is friends with Death, not as something anyone could do, did you see the black death magic spewing from his eyes?

Ghosts were already explained as to why they were on Ooo and the same for that place the Warrior Princess went to that seemed to be a sort of heaven-like place. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 20:29, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Rewatching that scene, I don't see any magic coming out of Peppermint Butler's eyes when he opens the portal. His eyes only get all death magicy when he is talking about his payment at the end of the episode. I had taken it as more of a rare or unique piece of knowledge, than an ability unique to Peppermint Butler. Jorlem (talk) 21:09, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 21:13, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Sure about my interpretation, or sure about what I saw when I rewatched the scene? We won't have verification either way unless we see someone try to enter the LotD without Peppermint Butler, but I am certain that his eyes do not glow while opening the portal (at least, they don't on the iTunes copy of the episode) Jorlem (talk) 22:14, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Wish Universes

Do you guys think that Jake's wish really "reset" everything? If you follow conventional time-travel logic, Jake's wish would invoke the grandfather paradox/unstable time loop. Under that interpretation, each wish would have had to come true in separate, divergent timelines in order to make sense -- in other words, the Lich was transported to a world without life, Finn is still going crazy with the crown in Farmworld, Jake is happily in a universe where everything is back to normal, and Bubblegum is still standing around wondering WTF just happened.

Another interpretation is that since the Time Room exists outside of time, all wishes come true independent of each other and are not dependent on past or future events, except in the case of wishes that explicitly override other wishes. By this interpretation, the Lich's wish never came true and Jake went back to the "real" Ooo(as opposed to an alternate Ooo he created), but Farmworld still exists(although which Finn is the "real" Finn is kind of up to debate IMO). For the record I'm leaning towards this one, partially because of the Farmworld references in other unrelated episodes.

And of course, the last, most popular, and probably correct interpretation because this is a kid's show and I'm overthinking the hell out of this, Jake's wish really did override everything and everybody's happily back where they belong(except for the Lich who I guess is trapped in the Time Room now?).

I dunno, time travel and multiverses generally get pretty muddled, but being the huge nerd that I am I usually find them the most interesting kinds of plots. Also, I'm the one that basically rewrote this page, sorry if I made it a little too wordy. I generally try not to get too involved in this stuff but these past few episodes really got me excited.

68.5.101.253 01:51, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be combining time lines with universes.

An alternate time line is still the same universe, but an alternate universe is not the same universe.

File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 18:21, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

It's more complicated than that. Think about it: if the wishes were altering the original "Home Dimension" instead of a copy, the wishers would never have existed in the first place. Interestingly, Finn's wish to make it so that the Lich never existed wasn't dependent on the creation of the Lich's universe, because his wish was made based on information that Prismo gave him -- in other words, Finn was able to overwrite the Lich's reality because his wish wasn't contingent upon that reality existing. However, Jake's wish was contingent on both the original universe existing and Finn's Farmworld universe existing(he only made the wish because he saw all the problems Finn was going through on the Time Room TV Wall thing).

However, there is the whole "Time Room existing outside of time" and Prismo mentioning that the only reason Jake and Finn are still around after the Lich's wish is because they're in the Time Room. There's two ways to interpret this: either time really doesn't exist in the time room, or there's a sort of "super-time" that exists only in the time room and supercedes "regular time."

Under the first interpretation, everybody who's ever made it to the time room in the history of all existence(and non-existence, since we're counting universes that could've potentially been overwritten by wishes) would appear to enter simultaneously. Pretty sure that's ruled out because the only people we saw were the Lich, Finn, and Jake, and I seriously doubt they're the only people from the only universe who ever tried to get to the Time Room.

Under the second interpretation, you can think of the Time Room as a separate timeline that starts and finishes before any of the other universes begin their respective existences. Under this interpretation, it's possible for the actual, original Home Dimension to have been completely overwritten by the Lich, since they now exist in this "super-time" and have no connection to the universe they came from anymore. However, it's debatable whether Jake's wish is now contingent upon Farmworld existing -- conventional logic states that as soon as information enters the Time Room, it becomes part of the "super-timeline" and creates a new chain of causality. However, if Prismo's TV Wall is capable of watching even potential dimensions that never really existed, then Jake's wish is no longer contingent on Farmworld. HOWEVER, it is still not possible for him to override the Lich's wish without creating a divergent timeline(a divergent super-timeline, for that matter), because his wish was still contingent on all of the events that had already played out in the super-timeline. So in the end, no matter how you look at it, Farmworld, if not the original Home Universe or the Lich's barren universe, has to at least exist. Besides all the time travel and causality mumbo-jumbo, isn't it at least interesting to think that that universe could still exist somewhere?

Again, I'm willing to accept that the writers really can't be assed to do perfectly clean time travel(if there's even such a thing), but I hope you at least understand it gets pretty damn complicated if you actually puzzle it all out.

68.5.101.253 20:34, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

This is simple temporal alterations, you contradict yourself and prove yourself with your contradiction?

Time is not some magical thing, it is simply a dimension, take a look at Prismo's seemingly 2D form, this is a being that is able to step through the fourth dimension (or tenth dimension if going by m-theory) as we are able to step through the third dimension. What Prismo did for Finn was alter the fourth dimension in his home universe, because of this Finn never would have come to Prismo and so Finn poofed over to where he would have been at that point in time.

But Prismo grew to like Jake, so he cut Jake a deal and instead of just altering the fourth dimension of the time room's universe Prismo took Jake back in time so he could keep his memories of the events and then altered the Lich King's wish so that the Farmworld timeline never came into existence.

Again, this is basic temporal theory?

As for whether or not the staff would care enough to make it work with actual physics, they definitely would, this show is far too extensive for them to half-ass anything at all. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 21:08, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh, this is just getting stupid. The very idea that the Time Room is "ten-dimensional"(seriously? you're bringing string theory into this?) conforms to the notion that Jake created(or maybe just traveled to, whatever floats your boat) an alternate Time Room where the Lich's wish was changed. Of course, that implies that since the Time Room has its own alternate versions, there are multiple multiverses, one for each version of the Time Room. Do you really want to go there?

Okay, here's one way to make everything work out: we can think of the Time Room as a sort of gateway or filter. On one side, you have all the potential universes that could ever exist, and on the other, you have the multiverse. Like the collapsing of the quantum wavefunction, the sum of the wishes of all the potential universes' inhabitants who reach the Time Room ends up determining the state of the actual multiverse. In reality, there are actually an infinite number of entities in the Time Room, but Finn and Jake only see themselves and the Lich either because they can only see/comprehend beings originating from the same universe or because Prismo filters out these other people. Either way, Prismo is actually interacting with this infinite set of entities when it seems like he's just talking to Finn and Jake. Going through all this mental acrobatics though, we only end up with a pedantic point: the Farmworld universe and even the Time Room as the original Finn and Jake perceived it never "technically" existed, but Prismo must be aware of their existence somehow for the end result to have been achieved, therefore they do exist on some level outside the scope of the multiverse.

Also, I have nothing against the show's staff. If anything, I congratulate them for being able to throw in a few obscure physics references, even if they're not entirely accurate, without ruining the fun or devolving into nerd-bickering.

68.5.101.253 23:26, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

What? I never said that? I only said that TIME was the fourth dimension and then I commented that if you go by string theory it would be the tenth dimensions. Not the time ROOM, but TIME itself.

Multiple multiverses? You must be mixing up timelines with actual universes instead of just alternate timelines of that universe. One universe can have an infinite amount of varying timelines.

Seems to me like the Time Room is a universe itself, and that Prismo moves in three dimensions. Height, length, and time, just look at him, he has no width.

If you stop an alternate timeline from being created, what makes you think that it would continue to exist? That just doesn't make sense?

They are more than enough accurate. File:Gotta Kill 'Em All!. ƒelinoel_ 20:02, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Page has been fixed after a decade of no discussion about it. Maybe we remove the "under construction" label?

Brosethorns (talk) 13:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Is the world Finn experiences within The Hall of Egress considered an alternate universe as the original entrance to the hall is moved and Jake is unaware of the hall as if Finn was talking to an alternate universe Jake.